When I said "the gods of ancient others, and other pagan gods, nor ghosts, Santa Claus, and gremlins, and I do see ..." I meant to say "the gods of ancient peoples, and other pagan gods, nor ghosts, Santa Claus, and gremlins, and I do not see ...."
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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38
The absolute insanity that religion breeds
by LoveUniHateExams inhowever good certain religious principles may or may not be, there seems to be complete insanity that only religion breeds.. a buddhist monk in thailand has apparently chopped off his own head to give himself 'good luck' in the afterlife.. .
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9488127/buddhist-monk-chops-head-guillotine-buddha.html.
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Disillusioned JW
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38
The absolute insanity that religion breeds
by LoveUniHateExams inhowever good certain religious principles may or may not be, there seems to be complete insanity that only religion breeds.. a buddhist monk in thailand has apparently chopped off his own head to give himself 'good luck' in the afterlife.. .
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9488127/buddhist-monk-chops-head-guillotine-buddha.html.
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Disillusioned JW
truth_b_known, what are some "... studies showing that neuroscience is proving what Buddhism already realized..."? I am intrigued by a secularized version of Buddhism. I agree that Buddha did not intend his philosophy to become a religion, but the way many people practice it (including praying to devas and by including some Hindu ideas and worship practices) it is religious.
I have two books on Buddhism. They are: The Teaching of Buddha [by Bukkyo Dendo Kyokai (Buddhist Promoting Foundation, located in Japan)] and The Art of Happiness: A Handbook for Living (coauthored by the Dali Lama and by Howard C. Cutler, M.D.), but I haven't yet read much of the latter. I bought the latter because I want to feel happiness and joy much more often, instead of merely feeling neutral emotionally (or only very mildly happy) most of the time. Most of my free time I only feel content and or fascinated. It is hard for me feel certain positive emotions (such as happiness and joy) other than for very brief periods. I have been trying since as far as I can remember (since before age 8) to feel joy and happiness for more than a few minutes (or a half hour) in a day (tough on some days I do feel joy or happiness for longer, but that is rare), but so far nothing has really worked. I have put much effort into solving the problem, including studying many books and articles (and praying when I believed in the god). It is somewhat like I am an android in that respect or a Vulcan. My mind is very analytically oriented (even since before age 8).
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38
The absolute insanity that religion breeds
by LoveUniHateExams inhowever good certain religious principles may or may not be, there seems to be complete insanity that only religion breeds.. a buddhist monk in thailand has apparently chopped off his own head to give himself 'good luck' in the afterlife.. .
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9488127/buddhist-monk-chops-head-guillotine-buddha.html.
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Disillusioned JW
Badfish, but according to your version/definition of Christianity the god (God) does require works to become saved (earned). Are you familiar with Pascal's wager? You see some people are very skeptical about certain kinds of claims, including the claim of the existence of a god, including the god of the Bible. Furthermore Pascal was a Catholic and he thus had the Catholic concept of the Christian god. Pascal said one should wager that the god exists and that if one does not believe he exists then one must try very hard to believe and that performing religious rituals (Catholic rituals and type of worship?) over a long period of time will result in one gaining the belief. Doing such would be a lot work (even if only psychological work) and if successful would amount to earning salvation.
Believing in the existence of a heavenly Christ who is the Son of God (and even God to many Christians) and in God the Father, does not come easily to people who are naturally very skeptical of the existence of any spirit beings.
Oh, but I see you have a way out of that matter. You seem to be a Calvinist (at least in one regard) since you say "... if God hasn’t enabled you to believe, you will not believe". Many times when I believed it was hard for me to believe (I thought I never believed in Zeus, Aphrodite, the gods of ancient others, and other pagan gods, nor ghosts, Santa Claus, and gremlins, and I do see anything clearly supernatural ever happen, so maybe Jehovah God, Jesus Christ the Son of God, Satan the Devil, angels, and demons don't exist either. I also knew since grade school that most scientists consider evolution to be true and so I often wondered if it was true.) After I learned more science in regards to the evidence for evolution and the geology and discovered many serious problems with the Bible, I became convinced of evolution and I became an atheist.
Before I became a total atheist (positive atheist, not merely an agnostic) I prayed to Jehovah/Yahweh God and even to Jesus/Yeshua Christ telling them that if God exists please provide me with the evidence (for I wish to only believe based upon evidence and not upon credulity/faith) that you know would convince that you exist. I made appeal using the example in the Bible of the man who asked Jesus for help in his unbelief, so that the man's son would be healed. I also said that according to the Bible Thomas said he would not believe Jesus was was from the dead unless he saw Jesus alive with the wounds present. I also mentioned the example in the Bible of test Jehovah allowed Elijah to do regarding calling down fire from heaven onto an altar. I further gave the biblical example of Yahweh telling Moses he would have Moses perform miraculous signs (as evidence) to convince the Hebrew people that God was directing Moses (that was in response to Moses asking how could he convince the people). In each of the cases the Bible said God (or Jesus) granted the requests. Despite my prayers, I never received any evidence that convinced me that God exists. Instead I learned of scientific evidence that is strong proof against the existence of the God (any god), even of a deistic god - thus I became an outright positive/strong atheist.
If, hypothetically speaking, you are correct about God and salvation, then God doesn't want me to believe in him and he wants me to go to hell for my disbelief in him. That idea of divine hiddenness coming with such severe adverse condemnation is awful and hideous. [The idea of divine hiddenness is also an idea that scholarly philosophers consider to be a very strong argument/evidence for the nonexistence of a personal omni-type of God who loves humanity.] But then again, I think that if a god exists who did a number of the things the Bible says Yahweh did in pre-Christian times then such a god is evil and should be opposed despite the punishment it would bring. So if, hypothetically speaking, the god you believe in exists then maybe that is why he doesn't want me to believe in him.
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Losing My Religion - America's progressive estrangement from organized religion
by EdenOne inthis article on the latest gallup survey:.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/america-losing-religion-effects-long-093028404.html.
in 1937, 73% of americans would be affiliated with some organized religion; that number remained steady until 1999: (70%); the 21st century brought about a major shift: 50% in 2018; 47% in the latest survey.. children who grew up in households without organized religion are less likely to affiliate to some form of organized religion.. it's not only a generational difference; the growth in those who express no religious preference is also on the rise in generation x (those born between mid 1960's and early 1980's).
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Disillusioned JW
My inclination since preteen years has been towards rationalism and science. When I was an active JW, as well as during my pre-baptism years from age 10 (and possibly even earlier) till my baptism, studying the JW religion was a drag and active participation in religion was a drag. Sure, thinking I could live forever in paradise was great, but I had doubts about that doctrine being a true teaching and I was greatly bored by having to read so much WT literature, attend multiple KH meetings per week, and engage in field service weekly.
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Do you sometimes bemoan the LOST idea, or Belief, that Someone Powerful was going to set all things right?
by pistolpete inso it looks like about half of my jw relatives are not going back to the meetings once they open up the kingdom halls.
the main reason all of them give is that if we were truly living in the last days, jehovah would not have allowed the door to door preaching work, and kingdom hall meetings to stop for over a year.. the elders have talked to some of them and tried to convince them that letter writing is accomplishing the same thing as door to door, and zoom is the same as meetings-----------but my relatives just won’t buy it anymore.
just a note here, at first, the kingdom hall lock-downs, and the no preaching door to door was not that bad,the relatives still held on to their faith strongly because they believed it was temporary.
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Disillusioned JW
Please see https://www.naturalism.org/philosophy/worldview-naturalism-in-depth/worldview-naturalism-a-status-report/contrasts-between-naturalism-and-anti-naturalism#morality . It says in the part:
- 'The “moral instinct” is part of who we are, it’s a defining characteristic of being human. We don’t, therefore, need commanding to be good; it happens quite naturally as a function of our evolved nature. We are, overall, happier, more productive, more secure and more interpersonally fulfilled when we act according to the golden rule and other ethical maxims. So the naturalist’s one-liner in response to the question “Why be moral?” might be simply: acting morally is essential for human happiness and flourishing within a community.'
Chaisson's book the Epic of Evolution, in its Epilogue, mentions that ethics are important "... because global citizenship and a planetary society are crucial factors in the survival of our species."
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Do you sometimes bemoan the LOST idea, or Belief, that Someone Powerful was going to set all things right?
by pistolpete inso it looks like about half of my jw relatives are not going back to the meetings once they open up the kingdom halls.
the main reason all of them give is that if we were truly living in the last days, jehovah would not have allowed the door to door preaching work, and kingdom hall meetings to stop for over a year.. the elders have talked to some of them and tried to convince them that letter writing is accomplishing the same thing as door to door, and zoom is the same as meetings-----------but my relatives just won’t buy it anymore.
just a note here, at first, the kingdom hall lock-downs, and the no preaching door to door was not that bad,the relatives still held on to their faith strongly because they believed it was temporary.
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Disillusioned JW
In my prior post when I wrote "5866" I meant to write "586", but you folks probably new that.
When it comes to having a belief system or worldview, after no longer being a believing JW, I opted for a naturalistic worldview grounded in scientific knowledge, the scientific method, and personal experience. I study science to build understanding of the universe and how the 'parts' of the universe are interrelated. A good book using that approach is the Epic of Evolution: Seven Ages of the Cosmos (copyright 2006) by Eric Chaisson. I also read science books and science articles on more specific topics. I just wish I remembered so much more of what I have read.
https://www.naturalism.org/worldview-naturalism/naturalism-in-a-nutshell . A basic code of ethics can be derived from such a view, including the principle of a variant of the "golden rule".
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Are You Concerned About Inflation?
by Simon ini saw a statistic the other day that something like 25% of all the debt that the us has incurred since 1776 was created in the last 12 months.
that's because they have printed so much currency and instead of letting that stop them, they are going to continue printing more to go on a spending spree on crazy green-new-deal schemes and union handouts.. does anyone think that this can be anything other than inflationary?
they are effectively stealing the wealth of everyone to then hand money out to people.
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Disillusioned JW
Where I live food is very plentiful (and in great variety) in the grocery stores.Fred Meyer's and Safeway are competing with Amazon by offering digital coupons to shoppers to download coupons from the online stores of Kroger (including Fred Meyer's) and Safeway. Other than for rent on my apartment and on food at fast food restaurants I don't notice price increases much. Part of that is because for several years now I don't do much shopping since I now have essentially all of the material things (such as electronics and furniture) I want. It is also because I am very thrifty and that I buy nearly all of my electronics and books used from deep discount thrift stores. It is also because most of the food I get is given to me for free by certain charitable organizations (who in turn received it as free from grocery stores due the stores donating their surplus that didn't sell).
Regarding my rent, it has not risen for over a year because my landlord has decided to delay raising the rent at my apartment building due the hard times many people are having financially due to Covid-19's impacts on employment.
Because of the climate in my area, because of where my apartment unit is located within my apartment building, and because if needed I bundle up while at home, during 10+ months of each year I keep my heaters (which are electric) turned off (except sometimes briefly the one in the bathroom). My electric bill (and I purchase 100% renewable electricity) has not increased much (in terms of dollars/month) over the years - my electric bill is only about $45/month.
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Do you sometimes bemoan the LOST idea, or Belief, that Someone Powerful was going to set all things right?
by pistolpete inso it looks like about half of my jw relatives are not going back to the meetings once they open up the kingdom halls.
the main reason all of them give is that if we were truly living in the last days, jehovah would not have allowed the door to door preaching work, and kingdom hall meetings to stop for over a year.. the elders have talked to some of them and tried to convince them that letter writing is accomplishing the same thing as door to door, and zoom is the same as meetings-----------but my relatives just won’t buy it anymore.
just a note here, at first, the kingdom hall lock-downs, and the no preaching door to door was not that bad,the relatives still held on to their faith strongly because they believed it was temporary.
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Disillusioned JW
Regarding 607 BCE not being the year that Jerusalem fell, I knew at least since the time that the "Let Your Kingdom Come" book (copyright in 1981) was first studied in congregational book studies that historians say it fell in 587/5866 BCE. That is because the "Let Your Kingdom Come" book has an Appendix to Chapter 14 in which the WT tries to defend its 607 BCE date while admitting that historians say the city fell in 587/5866 BCE instead. For example after presenting certain lines of reasoning based upon certain evidence the book says "From a secular viewpoint, such lines of evidence might seem to establish the Neo-Babylonian chronology with Nebuchadnezzar's 18th year (and the destruction of Jerusalem) in 587/6 B.C.E." Or, perhaps I first learned several years after the year 1981 (by reading articles online about the fall of Jerusalem) of the historians' dating of the fall.
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112
Are You Concerned About Inflation?
by Simon ini saw a statistic the other day that something like 25% of all the debt that the us has incurred since 1776 was created in the last 12 months.
that's because they have printed so much currency and instead of letting that stop them, they are going to continue printing more to go on a spending spree on crazy green-new-deal schemes and union handouts.. does anyone think that this can be anything other than inflationary?
they are effectively stealing the wealth of everyone to then hand money out to people.
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Disillusioned JW
It has been a great many years since I have seen high inflation in the USA. Furthermore, the USA's Federal Reserve Chairperson said recently that the federal government's efforts to stimulate the economy is unlikely to increase the inflation rate to above 2.5% (or so). Further, the previous Federal Reserve Chairperson said that competition by businesses with each other online (combined with consumers shopping for the best deals online) and with foreign businesses (including those in China) is keeping inflation rates low in the USA, despite low rates of employment (that comment was made before Covid-19 and the dramatic reduction in business activity which resulted in high unemployment rates later). As a result, I think that inflation rates will not become high in the USA within the next few years and thus I am not concerned about inflation.
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Do you sometimes bemoan the LOST idea, or Belief, that Someone Powerful was going to set all things right?
by pistolpete inso it looks like about half of my jw relatives are not going back to the meetings once they open up the kingdom halls.
the main reason all of them give is that if we were truly living in the last days, jehovah would not have allowed the door to door preaching work, and kingdom hall meetings to stop for over a year.. the elders have talked to some of them and tried to convince them that letter writing is accomplishing the same thing as door to door, and zoom is the same as meetings-----------but my relatives just won’t buy it anymore.
just a note here, at first, the kingdom hall lock-downs, and the no preaching door to door was not that bad,the relatives still held on to their faith strongly because they believed it was temporary.
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Disillusioned JW
From time to time I feel very sad that my body will become frail when I become very old and that I eventually will die and that is there is no resurrection. I also feel very sad when I contemplate the major problems in the world that thus far are not going away and that most of those are caused by human society. For example watch the programs called "Extinction: The Facts" and "Climate Change: The Facts" by the natural historian David Attenborough. The shows aired on PBS in the USA and they aired on the BBC.
But, during my teen years as an active JW and during my adult years as an active JW I did have serious doubts from time to time about the very existence of Jehovah God, Jesus Christ, Satan, angels, demons, and that any miracles ever happened. I thus didn't have great hope that Jehovah would be the one to solve the world's problems; I probably had more hope that humans would solve some of the problems, since history shows that humans have solved many problems. For example: humans ended slavery in virtually all countries, eradicated the Polio disease, have thus far avoided a nuclear war (other than the two nuclear bombs that were dropped in WWII), repaired the ozone layer (sealed up the ozone hole), dramatically reduced the per capita violent crime rates in multiple countries, made factory work far less dangerous for workers (at least in the USA), increased average life expectancy in many countries and standards of living, etc.
Regarding KHs being closed and the door to door work stopping, in past the WT/JWs fought many legal battles against various governments for the right to go door to door (including on Sundays) and to keep in KHs open. But when Covid-19 came they quickly cooperated with the governments to stop meeting in KHs and to stop preaching door to door; that is kind of strange. It is even stranger when one thinks that according the WT and the Bible Jehovah God is the creator of all living beings (other than Jehovah himself) and thus even the creator of bacteria and viruses, yet Jehovah did not prevent Covid-19 from severely disrupting the worship practices of Witnesses of Jehovah around the world.
The Bible also says that Jehovah brings diseases to punish people, yet Covid-19 is severely restricting the preaching work and in person worship meeting attendance of the Witnesses of Jehovah. How could those things happen if Jehovah is real and if Jehovah is the one and only true God and if the JWs are his chosen religious people and ruled by Jesus Christ the King of God's Kingdom? JWs should think about that question.